Tuesday, October 20, 2009

Any reason to be tricky on river here?

Eventually nights like this are going to happen and you're not going to run as good(I was about $100 under EV expectation). For example, my kings run into aces and obviously lose. My aces run into Kings and lose. I was up pretty big and gave it all back; but I did get lucky and have my Kings hold up. I was playing fairly loose on a table (around 25/18) and got somebody to call me down with pocket 8s for a 118 bb pot.

I still finished with a 15.69 bb/100 so I can't complain too much.

Here is an Aces hand where I checked the river and the villain goes all in. Is there really any reason to get tricky here?

No real read on Villain (63/13/1.0 over just 8 hands). "Donators" are what I call these type people.

Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Hold'em - 7 players - http://www.thehandconverter.com/hands/330627
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $54.65
SB: $50.00
BB: $10.00
UTG: $106.05
UTG+1: $50.75
MP: $50.00
Hero (CO): $60.10

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with As Ah
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, BTN calls $1.75, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($5.75) 5c 7d 9h (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, BTN calls $5, SB folds

Turn: ($15.75) 4c (2 players)
Hero bets $12, BTN calls $12

River: ($39.75) 4h (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $35.90 all in, Hero ??

Here is my reasoning. No real draws get there unless he flopped a monster. So I think the only way that I am going to extract any more money is to let him bluff at the pot; but he immediately goes all in.

Fold or Call?

Is anybody fearing the monster?


The Poker Meister said...

I was going to write "easy call" but I'm not sure in this case, because what would he be calling you down with? 8x's are clearly in his range as are 6x's and 9x 7x 5x (and 86). I feel like the running 4's helps you, though. If nothing else, the paired 4's counterfeit his 97 75 combos. The only thing I'm fearing here is 86 which is such a defined range that I'm making the call - particularly since you checked into him. If he has 86, or a set, GG him; reload & stack him another time.

This is so typical of a move in 50NL - check the river to the donk who ships - that you're going to be profitable in these types of spots even if you're wrong by calling this particular one.

Henrik said...

I agree and ty Pokermeister for the insight that the 4 on the river actually helps us. I just saw it as a "blank" since I see it as almost completely unlikely that he would have sticked around two streets with something like 54, 43 or A4.

Tricky tough how to think about this type of boards where there are no likely completed draws. From one point of view you should be more inclined to actually give someone who bets like this credit for a made hand since he should realise that he has less credibility when trying to tell us the story about the monster he holds, compared to a board where both made straights and flushes are likely. On the other hand we have the fact that made hands ARE more likely on such a board. It's a thinking on many levels where it's easy to get confused :-)

That said I agree as already said. We don't have any real material on Villain but let's assume he's a typical NL50 donk trying to bluff into a very dry spot. You used your pair of aces as a bluff catcher IMHO when u checked so call and see if you were right!

noldmax said...

This is a tough spot. This could definitely be a trap with a monster, or 6-4 that backed into trips. But you could also be facing hands like T8/J8/67/78/98. The problem is, someone with a pair+FD might be more inclined to get to showdown, hoping that you were just 2-barrelling with overs or something like that. This is pretty close and depends a lot of the competency that you project on this player. If you truly think this guy is a "donator", than you probably should lean towards a call. He could even be making a dumb "value" shove with a counterfeited 2-pair.

pokerpeaker said...

I fold there, but here's the thing. You had a game plan, and you need to follow through with your plan. You were hoping he would "bluff" on the river. So you need to stick with your read and call. Had you bet, and he raised you all in, you could fold (tho maybe not given the odds and pot size at that point, I don't know, I'd have to figure that out).

WillWonka said...

You guys hit right on the head. It's one of the those things where he does what you want him to do so you guys said, I need to stick to the plan.

I made a pretty insta call and he turned over 32s (diamonds).

I insta called; but then second guessed after reviewing hands.

The Poker Meister said...

Will - Why are you second guessing this call? You made the correct decision, right? He was drawing (on the turn, no less) to 4 outs...

Am I reading this wrong?

Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

No way to fold here. When you checked the river you signalled weakness, so you have to call for $35 more with the Aces. Well played.

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