Monday, June 02, 2008

Check Call the River for Value, What a concept

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to play in the MATH tonight. I did try a small satellite to get in and then I actually forgot to go register for it. I didn't know that he had changed it to satellites to the 750K. To tell you the truth, I kind of like the idea, and will probably try to play in it next week because of it. Nice concept there My Hoy!!

I had a small 463 hand session that went pretty well tonight mostly on two hands where I got paid off including the ultimate cooler hand of AA vs KK. Luckily, I was on the right side of the fence on this one. An alarming matter was that again, I showed less aggression than normal as my stats looked something like:


I'm finding myself calling alot more with position rather than 4 betting and that includes hands like the above mentioned AA and other hands with suited connectors. Anyway, I was up 2 1/2 buyins so I will always take that.

I listened to the rest of the podcost of Cash Plays with Bart featuring the interview with LeatherAss and they briefly talked about check calling for value which even included the river. I found that pretty interesting and haven't really incorporated that into my play too often. Typically, I'll bet my 2nd or 3rd pair on the river as a semi bluff / blocking type bet.

Let's take a look at 2 hands from tonight.

By the way, I want to mention yet another cool feature with Holdem Manager. It gives you the ability to mark a hand while you are playing for reviewing later. That it made it very easy to find one of these hands as I had marked it. The other was also easy, as I just filtered on all hands that I check called on the river. Previously, with PT2, I would have spent a little while searching for these hands unless I had written them down. You gotta love it. Anyway, onto the hands. OK, the hand coverter needs a little work for copying to HTML. I'll give them a break on that one.


The villain in this hand is a bad 52/2/2.4 player. The exact kind of player I'm looking for.

Grabbed by[url=] Holdem Manager[/url]NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#6670648384
Hero ($53.70)BB ($50)UTG ($60.90)CO ($59.15)BTN ($32.80)

Dealt to Hero J:diamond:K:diamond:

fold, call, call, call, check,

FLOP ($2) T:diamond:J:spade:2:spade:

Hero bets $1, BB folds, CO calls $1, BTN calls $1,

TURN ($5) T:diamond:J:spade:2:spade:Q:club:

Hero bets $3, CO calls $3, BTN calls $3,

RIVER ($14) T:diamond:J:spade:2:spade:Q:club:6:heart:

check, check, BTN bets $5, Hero calls $5, CO folds,

BTN shows A:diamond:7:club:(Flop 13.3%, Turn 6.8%)

Hero shows J:diamond:K:diamond:(Flop 86.7%, Turn 93.2%)

Hero wins $22.80

Against 2 players, it looks like I am giving up. The other player was also bad (43/0/1.2). So I'm thinking to myself.... self.. this looks like a good time for a check call for value. He didn't let me down. Making that call with one other person to act was a little scary but it worked out. Previously, I would have just fired another bullet on river if I thought I was good and they probably both would have folded.

Hand #2

Villain is a 57/8/3.1 player. Again exactly what I want.

This hand was a hand I definitely should not have been playing.. or at least not calling; but that is another conversation for another day.

Grabbed by
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer Game#6670593985

SB ($76.95)
BB ($67.85)
UTG ($89.20)
Hero ($78.40)
CO ($32)
BTN ($21.20)

Dealt to Hero A:spade:T:spade:

UTG raises to $1.75, call, call, call, fold, fold,

FLOP ($7.75) J:club:T:heart:A:club:

check, check, check, check,

TURN ($7.75) J:club:T:heart:A:club:3:spade:

check, Hero bets $5, CO calls $5, BTN folds, UTG folds,

RIVER ($17.75) J:club:T:heart:A:club:3:spade:7:club:

check, CO bets $15, Hero calls $15,

Hero shows A:spade:T:spade:
(Flop 70.5%, Turn 81.8%)

CO shows Q:spade:9:diamond:
(Flop 29.5%, Turn 18.2%)

Hero wins $45.40

Again, betting out would have gotten a fold. Should I have pushed here? I don't really think it is worth it for only $10.

So next time you are in this spot, think about the check call for value.


Fuel55 said...

You're just figuring this out now?

Here is a great great river check call for value:

WillWonka said...

Yep, I remember reading that.

I don't know if I am just figuring it out; but I definitely am thinking about it more often now.

Alan aka RecessRampage said...

I'm not sure Fuel's example really qualifies as check calling for value as it is just a great call.

Will, I'll email you a link to a pretty solid discussion some of us have had about check calling for value.

Alan aka RecessRampage said...

One more thing. I don't mind your stats. I am no longer in the school of "if you're coming in to the hand, you should be raising." I think there are lots of instances where calling in position is fine.

WillWonka said...

Hey RR, I am finding that as well. It's certainly not a fairy tale when they speak of position being the most important thing.

There are lots of things the make calling much better than raising... even at my levels.

Thanks for the email. I will definitely take a look at it.

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